Artifical tobacco flavours
| state | alpha |
| class | lingo |
| category | conflation |
| motivation | appeal to spite (again?) |
| science aversion | 🟧🟧 |
Policy makers likely assume "tobacco" flavoured e-cigarettes to taste largely like combustible cigarettes. They don't. Or that this ought to be the natural taste companion of nicotine. It isn't. And even that this would make them repelling to any and all non-smokers. Not historically, no. - Which are all probable progenitors for the flavour-fallacy.
Tobacco flavours aren't real. They're mostly quite synthetic compounds (mix of cocoa, liquorice, herb, wood aromas). It's absurd to replicate any burnt/ash aromas or aftertaste from just plant extracts. Even the overcentrated flavour mixes only resemble dried leaves, but don't provide exact replicas. (Even less plausible for muted 3.5µl puffs in pod devices). They're often just carried by name association and impaired taste buds. Which is why they're prevalent for dual use, not for successful quitters.
- See survey: /doc/trunk/survey/ATFs.md
- And results: /ext/survey_sum/ATFs
- goal is a graph like:
chemical compounds
HealthCan made a frail attempt at prescribing tobacco flavours by aggregating an ingredient list. Quite a few mishaps, duplicates, and very apparent why this won't work. But even a short overview confirms the most common perceptions:
| perfume agent | odor, taste, description |
|---|---|
| corylone | Burnt |
| trimethylpyrazine | Cocoa, Earth, Must, Potato, Roast |
| 2,3-dimethylpyrazine | coffee, wines |
| anethole | anise, fennel, liquorice |
| beta-damascone | rose |
| estragole | estragon, I guess? |
| isophorone | peppermint-like |
| tetramethylpyrazine | fermented cocoa, sourdough |
| 3-methyl-2-cyclopentenone | Fruit |
| 2-hydroxyisophorone | woody, phenolic, nut |
| methyl benzoate | feijoa tree fruit |
| 2-acetylpyridine | corn tortillas, popcorn, beer |
| 3,5-xylenol | not actually a flavouring agent, but toxin? |
| safranal | safran, I guess? |
| propenylguaethol | sweet-vanilla, woody, spicy, tobacco, powdery |
| 4-ethylanisole | anis |
| gamma-valerolactone | ? |
| 2-acetylfuran | nut, balsamic, cocoa, coffee |
| furfuryl alcohol | faint burning, bitter |
| cuminaldehyde | cumin, clove, parsley, thyme, beef, brandy |
| 5-methylfurfural | tamarind, cinnamon spice, caramel |
| 4-methyleneisophorone | ? |
| ketoisophorone | musty, woody, sweet tea, tobacco leaf |
| beta-damascenone | roses |
| methyl nicotinate | niacin ester, not a flavor |
| veratraldehyde | woody (vanillin extract) |
| pyridine | fish-like smell |
| 2,4-xylenol | smoky roasted |
| methyl phenylacetate | strong honey |
| butyric acid | isn't that nic "salts"? |
| ethyl vinyl ketone | pungen,t pepper, mustard, garlic |
| ethyl cyclopentenolone | sweet, maple, whiskey |
| nonanoic acid | unpleasant, rancid odor |
| geraniol | pleasant odour |
| phenethyl isovalerate | floral, fruity |
| 2-ethylfuran | bean, ethereal, cocoa, bread, malt, coffee, nut |
| ambroxan | amber, hints of caramel and tobacco |
| acetylpyrazine | popcorn, roast, nut |
| 3,5-dimethoxy-4-hydroxytoluene | phenolic, smoky, medicinal, wood, clove, root, must |
| cedrol | Cupressus, Juniperus, Oregano |
Incomplete list, but I would have expected more cocoa bases, certainly more caramel-like descriptors and liquorice. But the prevalence of herb/spice aromas explains quite a bit already.
- It's fair to assume that the mix complexity does counter the overall risk reduction from e-cigs.
- Even though there's little heating/nor pyrolysis in NVPs.
- But still more chemical interactions than in basic aromas.
(ToDo: response from FA would be more useful).
random reviews
While vendor descriptions are more optimistic, most user-reviews point towards the obvious:
- they totally dont smell or taste like tobacco. the tobacco extracts juices smell like wet tobacco leaves, the other ones approximate something by combining nuts, sandal wood-like flavor, acetyl pyrazine and whatnot. https://old.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/pugalp/tobacco_flavour_concentrates/
- I've never encountered one that taste like cigarettes. Depending on the blend they're usually more like pipe or cigar tobacco to me. Some kind of taste like how cigarettes smell when you first open the pack but there's no way to accurately recreate the burning tobacco taste. https://old.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/px9r3k/fda_confirms_unflavored_eliquid_is_flavored_even/
- E-cigarettes lack that disgusting aftertaste and smell. https://ecigone.com/e-cigarette-basics/e-cigarettes-taste-real/
- Many smokers shun trying electronic cigarettes because they are convinced they don’t taste like real cigarettes. That’s true, but with so many other amazing flavors to try, it doesn’t even matter. https://vaperanks.com/do-electronic-cigarettes-taste-like-real-cigarettes-no-they-taste-better/
- It's a more earthy raw and unwashed vegetable/plant type scent. Very different from the smell of a pack of regular cigarettes. Every rolling tobacco smells different, too. https://old.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/2d4rf0/what_do_tobacco_flavors_actually_taste_like/
- Most tobacco flavors I've tried have been absolutely disgusting. It's almost like a damn rose taste or some other funky floral scent that just really rustles my jimmies. https://old.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/2d4rf0/what_do_tobacco_flavors_actually_taste_like/
- but there are really awesome tobacco flavors out there. most don't really taste like what you'd consider tobacco. a lot are sweeter, with vanilla or caramel, etc. the true tobacco flavors however still are enjoyable (to me), they aren't dirty like an analog, don't taste like smoke or anything. https://old.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/2d4rf0/what_do_tobacco_flavors_actually_taste_like/cjm5a84/
- This description sounds right to me. Real tobacco is a complex natural matrix of many flavors. I never tasted an artificial food flavor that could hold a candle to the yummy complexity of a real well cured tobacco leaf. https://old.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/2d4rf0/what_do_tobacco_flavors_actually_taste_like/cjma5py/
- Cigarette smokers in the USA don't know what tobacco tastes like the last 35 years because they are not composed of pure tobacco anymore. Vapers don't know what tobacco tastes like because RY4 synthetic flavorings are nothing like tobacco. Artificial vanilla, caramel and hazelnut do not a tobacco make. https://old.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/2d4rf0/what_do_tobacco_flavors_actually_taste_like/cjm9aoq/
history
Hon Lik’s original e-cigarette came unflavoured (just PG+nic). Once commercially available, basic forrest fruit additives came about. But "tobacco" flavours took quite a few more years to materialize. RY4 was the first that provided some resemblance: https://old.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/1kabab/ry4_was_there_an_ry3_ry2_and_ry1/cbmxj6e/
NET flavours
Natural-extract tobacco aromas are rare. But reportedly come closer to the plant-like taste (than herb-emulation could). They simulate burnt and aftertaste perceptions even less. And of course can be presumed to have a slightly higher toxicity (irrelevant in comparison to combustibles, but higher than basic fragrances). https://ecigarettereviewed.com/NET-e-liquid-flavor-vs-added-risk/
ToDo
- Assessment on RY8 (fruity concentrate smell, minty if overdosed, largely mystery taste).
- → This seems to be the main confusion of policy makers. Based on the assumption that the "tobacco" label implies the presumed "appalling" cigarette taste or something. Or it's really intended as retribution/penalty for former smokers. (Get away with making them repelling to ex-smokers without expliciting poop flavours.)
- Should also add a note that e-cig users are perhaps overworried, the relapse effect from ATFs is less probable after polonged vaping. (Much more plausible for recent switchers. But also voluminous RDA/RTA usage.)
- (push for ATFs in e-cigs might just be regulatory validation creep again.)